The Inner Thoughts of 2 Unpaid Life Coaches, Pt. 2/2

On this episode of Authenticated, Kate McLeod and Curtis Dunn continue their collaborative personal practice of pushing back on one another’s perceptions of present thinking; the practice they use between one another to leverage the other side of their perspectives and opinions, for further information to illuminate, support or pivot their present thinking. Kate and Curtis are open in sharing the trials and tribulations of being intentional in commiting to practicing present thinking, as moment to moment realizations are shared as active examples. They discuss illusions of control, commitment to improvement and the joy along the way. 

Authenticated All Access             

ME³        

Kate McLeod          

Transcript

Curtis Dunn_AUTHENTICATED Pt. 2

[00:00:00]

Curtis Dunn: For sure. For sure. But we are getting back to that. We're gonna 

Kate McLeod: circle 

Curtis Dunn: back. 

Kate McLeod: Welcome to the latest episode of Authenticated with your host, Kate McLeod. I am intrigued by people, people watching. I love people learning. That's where I'm insatiably curious. I'm interested in the why and how of the creative minds pattern of thinking. The subtext to the creative thinker or in its more conscious and malleable form, the creative conscious.

: Because when you are so clear on yourself via the triad of consciousnesses, then you become reflective to others. Meeting yourself is an infectious practice because what feels good is infectious and something I think we could all use a good dose of. So join me in conversations with a diverse arsenal of creative thinkers, from artists to entrepreneurs, to serial thinkers ready to optimize their creative conscious with me.

Self-made and self-proclaimed creative entrepreneur. Sounds hot, right? 

I.

Curtis Dunn: But um, you know, [00:01:00] that's what we were talking about with that writing idea. But like, for me, I actually don't I don't believe in like, the idea of a soulmate at all. And that's something I'm really like, coming around to recently.

Curtis Dunn: I'm becoming less and less, kind of, romantic about these things. Because I think that actually cheapens what our 14 year relationship has been. It's not soulmates who like, found each other. We are people that needed another person, and we have built. a relationship. We have put in hours, we have put in work getting to know one another and getting to know kind of what we believe in, our values, getting to know our histories, all of that.

Curtis Dunn: Like to, To say that, you know, the universe brought us together for me. We put it in work, and I want credit for the work that we put in, you know? no, for 

Kate McLeod: sure. Well, Then say more, wait, say more about that before I say what I was going to say. 

Curtis Dunn: Well, I just think, [00:02:00] I just think that um, uh, uh, kind of with all types of relationships like, relationships um, require maintenance, require work.

Curtis Dunn: For sure. And I think it's, it's easy to, I used to, Or maybe I still do, who knows. But I, you know, talk to me in a year and I'll feel differently, whatever. But I used to always say this thing about, you know, um, Actually, I was recently talking to my roommate about this. That um, she was saying there uh, it's like the 5, 000 soul theory.

Curtis Dunn: That um, in your living life, you might meet 5, 000 significant souls. And that every time you're reincarnated, it's, the same 5, 000 souls just in like, different iterations or whatever. Um, But I, I used to like, really subscribe to that, that idea of certain people you meet you've known before. 

Kate McLeod: Yeah. 

Curtis Dunn: And I remember when we went to London, I was like, I've been here before, even though I had never stepped foot there [00:03:00] in my life.

Curtis Dunn: So I, I'm not saying like, I've never entertained these ideas. What I'm saying is. I think even if all of that is true, I think it actually ends up cheapening what it's like to build a relationship, to maintain a relationship. You get what I'm getting at there? No, I see your 

Kate McLeod: perspective and it like definitely makes sense because Yeah, I want credit for the work because like we have gone, we've gone through a lot, we've put in a lot of work, we've put in a lot of time and effort and like definitely want to own that and like get credit for that.

Kate McLeod: But what I think what I mean by soulmate too is soulmate to me means like an eligibility. For the relationship to put into this work where it's like, you and I grew up on opposite sides of the country in opposite circumstances with opposite people, but for some reason, you and I find a lot of same like psychological clicks that the two, two of us both have both middle children, you know what I mean?

Kate McLeod: Um, both born the same year. so I think that for me, soulmate means [00:04:00] just The opportunity to opt in because it's not like you meet someone and there's never any work. there is no relationship on earth that doesn't require some kind of work or re alignment or adjustment because human variation is too vast for anything to be, two people to be perfect, if that even is a word like, for each other.

Curtis Dunn: For sure. Well, And what you're saying about opting in, that we, we got the opportunity to opt in, like the universe gave us that option. Yes. I'm of the mind not, not to like push back, but I guess that's the point. Um, But I'm of the mind that we have that option to opt in for every single human being. 

Kate McLeod: I don't know though.

Kate McLeod: Because it is. The level of work that would be required. 

Curtis Dunn: Mm hmm. Different. 

Kate McLeod: I don't know if I would sign up for all of that. 

Curtis Dunn: But think about you talked about how we didn't like each other when we first met. 

Kate McLeod: Yeah. 

Curtis Dunn: Actively didn't like each other, like very, very much. Yeah, actively. Very 

Kate McLeod: actively.

Kate McLeod: Ha ha 

Curtis Dunn: ha ha Ha! But, But, you know, there's, [00:05:00] it's through circumstance. that we wound up liking each other. And then it was through hard work. I see you. That we are now sitting here across from this table today, 14 years later, whatever. So for me, it's I don't think the universe set us up to to be as good friends today.

Curtis Dunn: As we are. 

Kate McLeod: I still believe in the universe at all, but I, this takes me back to what we were saying earlier when you were saying that like, when you present options for yourself of what might happen in your evolution, what's next? You always have a two sided situation where you need someone to cosign, where it's like, I'm going to leave.

Kate McLeod: this certain percentage of this option open so that the other side can meet me there and then I can really know what my options are in a more solidified way because there are two parties that are saying this will happen. What if there's three? What if there is you, me, and the universe? Girl. What if?

Kate McLeod: What if? Yeah sure, sure, sure. I'm just saying that [00:06:00] there, there, there is more, and especially like to disperse like more of it. It, It, I don't want to say like it alleviates and like, um, helps distribute to carry the weight, but it is almost like, um. that there is like, some force that we don't have control over that is an active participant.

Curtis Dunn: Listen, this is when your crunchy SoCal kind of upbringing comes up against my sort of uh, you know, hardened New England uh, whatever. But like, realist me. You are the only person in my 

Kate McLeod: life who has ever called me. Crunchy, but I love your crunchy. We were just talking about 

Curtis Dunn: when we went to the farmer's market with your mother, you know, But um, I Look, look, I I hear you.

Curtis Dunn: I think i'm just uh, I i'm not somebody who's going to Uh, you know, give, give that to somebody else because I'm here and I did this and like, yeah, sure, maybe there, maybe there's a universe, maybe there's [00:07:00] God, maybe there's whatever that that's, you know, um, helping us along the way that that is deciding what's happening in our lives.

Curtis Dunn: Absolutely. I have a lot of time for that, but. Let me tell you about me and what I've done, you know, like, and, and I'm just gonna I'm, I'm gonna take that credit there. 

Kate McLeod: You're gonna take your credit, you're gonna take your space, but see, I, this is, I think this is what is one of the keys to our relationship that makes it so successful is because we have no fear of pushing back on the other.

Kate McLeod: Yeah. Which is so good, because I want a different perspective as do you. 

Curtis Dunn: I think we disagree on things. 

Kate McLeod: A lot of things. 

Curtis Dunn: Right, So like, and, and, or even just have like a different um, Kind of gut reaction to things, even I think we were like watching drag race last night And you were like you're like, oh this person like nope.

Curtis Dunn: No, and I was like, excuse me incorrect

Curtis Dunn: Completely different views on the matter [00:08:00] and It's but I it's not I think because both of us like to be challenged. Maybe that's why You know, even on these kind of really important things of how you see the world and the universe and and whatever Um, I actually I really appreciate when you go like Californian woo woo on me, you know And I I like being exposed to that and I like being exposed to like these different ways of thinking that's That's my whole bag.

Curtis Dunn: I 

Kate McLeod: think my woo to the approach to my woo is because I love science so much and I love information. The woo to me is the space of unknowing where it's like, because the more you know, the more you realize you don't know. 

Curtis Dunn: For sure. Yeah, absolutely. And 

Kate McLeod: that's the thing. As I continue to educate myself, I just realize how much I don't know.

Kate McLeod: And I think that the only people who kind of bump me now or kind of like extra intrigued me in a way are the people who think that they know everything. And I'm like, Oh my god, I need to know how you think that. Like, No, and not, not from a place of like, prove you wrong, but no, genuinely tell me more.

Kate McLeod: Because that's not the perspective I have [00:09:00] at all. I, all the time, I'm just like, oh my god, there's so Is there enough time for me to like, literally learn all the things that I want to learn? 

Curtis Dunn: Yes. 

Curtis Dunn: Yes. Well, And well, I guess no, actually. The answer is no. No, the answer, yeah. There is not enough, my grandma used to always say like, uh, there's not enough time in this life for me to read all the books I want to read, you know? yeah. That's, that hurts my heart, you know, to like, I feel the same way. There is so much I want to consume, so much I want to learn um, and there's not enough time for it. No. So, I have to just be happy with. That's what I've got in front of me. 

Kate McLeod: I've had a really interesting shift recently where I've been having a hard time going to sleep at night because I'm so excited for the next day.

Kate McLeod: And this is when I become annoying. 

Curtis Dunn: That's literally like the most like Kate McLeod coded thing I could think of. Go on. Go on. But then 

Kate McLeod: I wake up in the morning so excited for the day. Like I have naturally been waking, I've been doing this thing where I've been challenging myself to like write [00:10:00] about like the highest self that I could see, that version of myself that day and like what she's feeling and how I can like implement that into my life now and like feel those things.

Kate McLeod: But genuinely something that is waking me up naturally now is like excitement. And then by the end of the day I'm like no, I didn't get enough time. I want to do more. And it's would rather opt into that energy. than having the fear of not enough time. 

Curtis Dunn: Sure, meanwhile, I literally value nothing more than sleep.

Curtis Dunn: If I could sleep. 18 hours a day. I would sleep 18 hours a day. I look back on a day and I'm like, God, it was a good sleep last night. Like That is like what I value most. You're 

Kate McLeod: the one who actually was the first one to be like, You don't sleep enough. It's not natural. No, 

Curtis Dunn: that's 100 percent true. And you don't.

Kate McLeod: No, because I have so much excitement. 

Curtis Dunn: But 

Kate McLeod: You on the other hand, so 

Curtis Dunn: bright eye, bushy tailed, like so much excitement. I just can't even sleep. 

Kate McLeod: Yeah. New York hasn't hardened me after 14 years at all. Um, uh, but What you though, you're also [00:11:00] what, what do you say? What, What's your phrase again? Like. Optimist. Something comes before optimist, though, that you call yourself. 

Curtis Dunn: Oh. What? 

Kate McLeod: You refer to yourself as this all the time. You're optimist. Like, If you had to categorize your personhood of optimism, what would it be? 

Curtis Dunn: Do I say I'm an eternal optimist? Eternal optimist. That's what it is. No, 

Kate McLeod: you are an eternal optimist.

Kate McLeod: And even when I call you and I'm like, this is bad and it means this, you're like, but does it? No. Like, You are the person who literally finds more space. 

Curtis Dunn: Yeah. 

Kate McLeod: And more opportunity and feelings to feel more positive. So your energy is quite similar to mine, just translated in a different way. 

Curtis Dunn: That, no, that, and that, that is true.

Curtis Dunn: You know, like, you, You have a, a bad day and then you won't be able to sleep because you're excited for the good day tomorrow. You know, I, I have a bad day and I'm like, I'm going to go to sleep because tomorrow's going to be a good day. You know, it's, it's, it's, It's we're, we're getting to the same place.

Curtis Dunn: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Me having a lot more sleep, so I'm gonna live a lot longer than you. 

Kate McLeod: That, more than likely. Yeah, [00:12:00] I have been sleeping more, though. No more four hours a night. Now I'm at maybe seven or eight, average. 

Curtis Dunn: Yeah, for sure at our age, you should be getting at least eight. 

Kate McLeod: No and, and that is true, though.

Kate McLeod: It's just like, I've also realized, too, that I'm not gonna reach my highest levels of creation if I'm not giving my body Literally, biologically what it needs 

Curtis Dunn: to survive 

Kate McLeod: to be successful. I also am trying so hard to detach myself from the addiction of doing.

Kate McLeod: Um, And constantly doing. 

Curtis Dunn: Sure, I mean that's like what we were talking about before, right? It's like needing to be productive. Or else you get so guilty about not being productive, right? Yeah. 

Kate McLeod: Yeah, and there's just like no point to that. It's wasted. 

Curtis Dunn: Yeah, no, absolutely. 

Kate McLeod: Yeah, and I know I'm getting, like I have a lot of confidence always in like, I'm going where I want to go.

Kate McLeod: I'm achieving what I want to achieve. Like, I'm going to be able to do all the things that I want. 

Curtis Dunn: No, I was just gonna, I was just gonna say, like, all of that is true, but then like, as any bodybuilder would tell you, rest is actually the most important thing. 

Kate McLeod: Correct. 

Curtis Dunn: Right? In, In order to build muscle, [00:13:00] you actually have to rest.

Curtis Dunn: Yeah. And, And that's actually what builds the muscle, is those rest periods or whatever. I mean, I'm saying that as if it's fact. I'm pretty sure that's true. You can, I don't know. 

Kate McLeod: As someone who lifts a lot, it is very important for you to let your body rest. The 

Curtis Dunn: point is, it's super important to rest, and it's a decluttering that happens right, when we sleep.

Curtis Dunn: And if you're not, you know, if you're constantly, constantly, constantly running, you're never giving yourself a chance. To, I don't know, reflect back, to to, to, you know, just to be optimized, right? And that's what we're, that's what we're trying to do now, right? We are trying to optimize. We're trying to be optimized people.

Kate McLeod: the other kind of rest that I had to actively implement is the rest that is the way I talk to myself in my brain. 

Curtis Dunn: Where 

Kate McLeod: I used to be driven by more negative forces, I think, and proving other people wrong, that whole, I read something online that was like, to the people who close the doors on me, I'm coming back to buy the building.[00:14:00]

Kate McLeod: Like, I don't need that energy as much as I need the energy of just enjoying my own user experience and like, Actually just having better thoughts where I don't have to like carry as much weight or like don't have to like like I've told you about the visual where it's like the big Kate walking and then like sometimes when I feel like I've healed old versions of myself, the little Kate's that are like clinging onto my back, they uncling and it's not like I leave them.

Kate McLeod: They just start walking on their own with me 

Curtis Dunn: kind of A 

Kate McLeod: deal where it's like I don't think that I have to hold on or harden as much. I think it's actually more beneficial for me to um, habitualized Having a better way of talking to myself in my head, and then just being a malleable little being. 

Curtis Dunn: Well, Yeah, why is it, you know, when people, when people shut the door on you, why is your first instinct to be like, I'm gonna prove them wrong?

Kate McLeod: Yeah. 

Curtis Dunn: What, like, why? No, exactly. You know, Am I allowed to curse on this podcast? Absolutely. My, my go to motto of like, I don't fuck with people that don't fuck with me. So if somebody's closing a [00:15:00] door on me, that's not somebody I want to work with. 

Kate McLeod: Yeah, and also, that person genuinely thinks that they are doing the best thing for themselves, pop off.

Kate McLeod: Go do that. Because the reason that this friendship is so fun is because both of you, both of us pressed the fuck yeah button. 

Curtis Dunn: Yeah. 

Kate McLeod: It doesn't work if it's 

Curtis Dunn: We're yes bitches. 

Kate McLeod: We're yes bitches. 

Curtis Dunn: Um, But I, I, I guess I'm saying that because, you know, the, the idea of how we respond to rejection or how we respond to not being wanted, you know, however you want to phrase it um, that's that type of thing that I'm talking about where that's a learned behavior.

Curtis Dunn: You know, You get rejected and you're like Okay, this door's shut. I'm gonna own the building. I'm gonna get back by, you know, whatever. Um, A door shuts on me and I'm uh, I don't, I don't even know what I do. But, But the idea is that, that response to rejection, for all of [00:16:00] us, can be optimized, can be, rejection, we talked about this recently, but like, rejection.

Curtis Dunn: isn't a feeling you should ever have to feel. Mm hmm. And, you know, yeah, exactly. In an ideal world um, if, if you are actually rejected, you don't need to feel rejection. Mm hmm. That if you're rejected, like I'm saying, you know, Okay, on to the next thing. That wasn't meant to work here. We're gonna keep moving.

Curtis Dunn: And that, it's easier said than done. I, I'm somebody who is perpetually kind of in fear of rejection. And yet, I decided to become an actor. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Um, Who knows? Maybe that's that thing of uh, me being Clinically needing a challenge, right? So I'm like, okay, I hate rejection. I'm going to enter a field that is exclusively rejection.

Curtis Dunn: [00:17:00] Yeah, Yeah. 

Kate McLeod: I think my switch towards Rejection now is being like, okay well, I'm just not going there. It's just like, okay, so that's not it I know the things like I know the big thing. I know the goal. It's gonna be reached. I know it's gonna happen I have no idea how it looks I think that to the I'm coming back to buy the building thing It was one, a defense mechanism, but two, it was also an easily accessible learned behavior that I could opt into super quickly because everyone around me was trying to feel that like, semblance of like, taking their power back like, I'm coming back to buy the building so, like, close the door on me, that's fine, but that's what so many people are doing as their defense mechanism, but I was doing it, and it's like, I can embody it, and I can do that, but it just wasn't feeling Right to me.

Kate McLeod: I'm like, I just like don't know if like other people's opinions of me matter that much I don't know if other people should have other people in their actions should have that much um influence over the way that I feel about myself like that just that to me like doesn't Makes sense. So [00:18:00] now it's like even in acting it's like rejection constantly all the time 

Kate McLeod: being in the acting field is just constant rejection and Now it's just more of like, okay, so that's just not the thing I'm just not going that direction, but luckily I have these other three directions that I could go.

Kate McLeod: Or what I could do is if, instead of I don't want to be in the room of waiting for other people to give me a green light, I'm just gonna go into a different building, give myself the green light, and then play the game later when I'm at a different level. So it's not this like initial thing, cause it's really hard, it's like the thing like uh, I don't want to go to cattle calls.

Kate McLeod: And they're just not the place for me, like I go and I just see old versions of myself and I'm like, Oh, this actually isn't the speed here. The cadence here hasn't kept up with my own evolution. So I shouldn't be going at this speed because it's old. 

Curtis Dunn: Sure. But I mean, I mean, this is again the thing that I'm I was saying, you know, 10 years from now, we're going to listen back to this, which put that.

Curtis Dunn: Literally in the calendar, [00:19:00] 10 years from now, we're going to re I want a 

Kate McLeod: notification. 

Curtis Dunn: Yeah, absolutely. But, But I think we'll look back on this and say Oh, we, that, that seemed like the right thought, but even that has its own, kind of, whatever like, um, It's gonna grow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah I, I think, you know, to re You're saying, I couldn't go to a cattle call now because I'm seeing old versions of myself there.

Curtis Dunn: It's like, okay well, you're your new version of yourself. What's preventing you from being the new version of yourself there? 

Kate McLeod: You mean like, to go into there and just like, be my powerful self now like, in that situation? 

Curtis Dunn: Yeah. 

Curtis Dunn: Hmm. 

Kate McLeod: Well, It's not ego. It's, It's kind of like I've logicked or rationaled my way out of that.

Curtis Dunn: For sure. Like, I think, I think sometimes you, you can do this thing where you, you, you tell yourself a narrative and then that [00:20:00] becomes the, the truth. And it's, it's not that the narrative is wrong. Like, I don't know that going to cattle calls is the best thing for you right now. You know what I mean? But, But We, we tell ourselves these narratives in order to justify why we don't want to be going to cattle calls.

Curtis Dunn: And it's like, even if it's a true kind of narrative based in fact um, it's still uh, I don't want to overuse, you know, defense mechanism or whatever it is, but it's a way to protect yourself from the vulnerability that you feel when you walk into a room and there are 30 versions of you there. Right? Reading for the same part. Like, That's just something that An icky feeling. Well,

Kate McLeod: I also mean by when I say old versions of myself too, because I am curious on what your thoughts are between the difference of a defense mechanism and also like just being like, oh, it's just not my space anymore. Because it's not [00:21:00] like I'm going in and I'm seeing people who all look like me.

Kate McLeod: It's that I'm literally going into a room and I'm seeing someone and I'm reading their energy and I'm like, I used to feel like that too. Like, I used to shake before auditions, even though I wanted to be here actively. I did used to shake, I did used to get nervous, and I did have to do my breathing exercises, and I did do my stretches in front of everybody, and like, I did do all these things where it's like, this is just not a practice that I'm practicing anymore.

Kate McLeod: You know, It's like, I, Because I know, not I know, but I have a better relationship to showing up in a room that I know is curated for me or has me in mind. Because I also know from the other side of the table, after producing, after assembling, shoots, I do know that there are Specific things in mind that people do have when they come in, ideas.

Kate McLeod: And of course, like, when actors come in, there is the evolution of the idea that changes because they come in with their ideas and, you know, casting director sees them, director sees them, they morph. But there are just certain rooms where I'm like hmm, I actually don't [00:22:00] think that I am even serving this space.

Kate McLeod: As well. 

Curtis Dunn: Absolutely. I think, I think what um, what I mean like even picking up on the sort of old versions of yourself or, or whatever that is, you know, you're saying you're coming in and you're sensing their nervous energy, you know, what's happening with them. Which I, I absolutely, I know exactly what you mean there.

Curtis Dunn: Um, And yet you're a grown person that's coming in and isn't, it doesn't have that nervous energy. So isn't that exactly how you should be going in to set yourself apart from these people? I mean, No, 

Kate McLeod: good point. Still a tool. But, 

Curtis Dunn: I think, I think for you to say, okay, but this is, this also isn't what I'm looking for right now.

Curtis Dunn: Yeah. Um, That's totally acceptable. Mhm. But. If you wanted to, I don't know get, get a role uh, uh, you know, in, in that new production of [00:23:00] whatever play. I do have to 

Kate McLeod: go to the EPA. 

Curtis Dunn: This is the way to do it, right? And so you can decide, okay, I don't want to go to cattle calls anymore. But. You're saying, in saying that, you're also saying like, I don't want that job, right?

Curtis Dunn: And that's totally fine, but you, I'm saying this all from the perspective of, I'm a retired actor. Like, For the record like, I don't, I don't go to auditions full stop anymore, right? So, That's, and that's something that I've Kind of had to come around to mm-hmm .. And I've had to be really honest with myself that it's like, I can't like, it, it, it is not for me that sort of um, the uncertainty of it.

Curtis Dunn: Mm-hmm .. The uh, the, the feeling like um, that, that constant rejection, I gave it a try and um, I regret nothing. Yeah. But it's, it's not a part of my life and it, it, [00:24:00] it all has to do with. My comfortability there 

Kate McLeod: well, I think too. There's also the from my perspective for my vantage point It's like the potential of the story and the way that the story goes and this might be the product oriented thing But it's like if Kate does want to be in that new production of playwrights horizons that like she got the breakdown and read the script It was completely lit up by it.

Kate McLeod: Does the story go? So Kate went to the equity public Audition did Kate go to the EPA and then, you know, Elaine was there and was like, Oh, I remember you. Okay. And then that's right. I, I should have brought you in. Cause I kind of forgot, but like, that's great. Like, I'll see you now. Cause like, that's a resource I have, or is it that I email her and be like, saw this happened, would love to come in for it.

Kate McLeod: You know, like, I don't know if the story anymore lines with me to say well, then Kate went to the EPA. 

Curtis Dunn: Yeah. I, I don't know either. I don't think anybody knows. 

Kate McLeod: Because I'm also looking for optimization, right? Like the first time that equity building was accessible to me was, When we were in undergrad, when I went to the room and I waited for an entire day, I was like, I will never [00:25:00] do this again.

Kate McLeod: I will never be in the position of waiting for a whole day, as if my time is not valuable, it doesn't matter, for someone to maybe give me an opportunity. Do you know what I mean? And then I got my equity card and then I was like, okay, so I can make appointments, go in, out. That's great. I use it as a really beautiful tool for a long time just to act because it brings me so much joy.

Kate McLeod: And also to be in the practice of waking up excited, but also being like, I get to act a day. Like I would literally skip to my auditions. And still now when I do see certain calls that I'm like, I am going in for that. I do skip there and I do skip home. I'm so excited. It is just a beautiful opportunity.

Kate McLeod: But I also think that. As I continue looking back, I see the ways that I optimized my opportunities from, not equity to equity, now having appointment times. And then now just being like, okay, so now I've met these people, and what other ways can I create for myself to meet these people?

Kate McLeod: And then why can't I just ask them directly, let me just eliminate the parties in between us. 

Curtis Dunn: Absolutely. That's the entire game of any [00:26:00] industry, right? It's, It's you, you get work through your network or whatever it is. Um, But I also think. You know, You have to go to that job interview, though, as well.

Curtis Dunn: So, um, I was recently reading this thing on LinkedIn, the only social media I have. Like, Please add me on LinkedIn. I have 

Kate McLeod: But I was reading on LinkedIn, you know, what, apparently what the Who knows? Who? And this is the point. Who knows? Nobody knows. But someone 

Kate McLeod: thinks they know and you read it, so tell me.

Kate McLeod: Well, Exactly. 

Curtis Dunn: So, So they, they thought um, that what you should do is you, you submit an application and then you add the hiring manager on LinkedIn and you message them and you say, Hey, I just applied. Just wanted to connect as well. And then you're doing the interview and I'm like, okay, that's all.

Curtis Dunn: It's all about building that network and building those connections. So I recently did an interview and I was like, Oh, can I add you guys on LinkedIn after that? Like, you [00:27:00] know, And it's this idea of um, taking that moment where you're face to face with someone and continuing that. Getting in the room, getting seen by people, and For you, I think what you're kind of circling is, Oh, I don't need to go to these open calls to get in the room with these people.

Curtis Dunn: These people actually already know who I am. You know? Yes. And, And, I I think there's benefits to both, you know, what, how are you going to spend, it takes you what? Well, No, I don't want to like dox you how long it takes you to get to the equity building. In total, if I decide that 

Kate McLeod: I'm going to go to the equity building, and also just to expand on what you just said, it's not that I'm not doing that, it's just that that's not my only option now.

Curtis Dunn: Absolutely, Absolutely. Yeah, that's one tool 

Kate McLeod: I have in my toolbox of getting what I want. Yes. And I completely forgot what I was going to say. What did you just ask me? 

Curtis Dunn: Oh, I was going to say, like, how long does it actually take you? Like, all told, you're going to a call now that, especially now that you have your card and you can schedule an appointment.

Curtis Dunn: Well, I don't know [00:28:00] how it works these days. Oh, no, you do schedule. Back in my day. 

Kate McLeod: Of acting, what I've retired from. No, I mean, when I do decide, I will say what that takes of me from the day is it probably takes me two and a half hours, which is, and that's not commute time. That is Kate prep time. And we know I love an indulgent prep morning.

Kate McLeod: My bathroom is my spa. Like, That is part of my process. And then getting into the place that I want to be, where I know that I am successful in coming from before I go into that room. Then traveling, 25 minutes. Like, On the train, it takes me no time. Walk in 15 minutes early, sit, whatever, probably know someone.

Kate McLeod: Go in, go out, come home. Like, It's not Oh, that's 

Curtis Dunn: nice. You ran into someone while you were there. A little networking opportunity. Sorry. Not 

Kate McLeod: you illuminating. Not you stage lighting my fucking stage. I love that. You're like, literally more. 

Kate McLeod: But yeah, I mean, it doesn't take me that much time, what I do know is it gives me so much joy. It gives me so much joy to go in and do a monologue or do the scene. Yeah. And so [00:29:00] it's like, yeah, sometimes I do it when I know I'm not even right for the part, but I just want to go see that casting director because I know them or 

Kate McLeod: I haven't met that casting director before and like, yeah, I'm kind of pushing it on the age for whatever this breakdown is often, but also like. I know that I am a valuable enough actor and human that, like, when I go in. You could change your mind, because I'm coming in with a good idea, and I'm coming in with a ton of talent.

Curtis Dunn: And let me tell you, one thing you're very good at is changing people's minds, right? But, But I, I, I, to just like, completely push, push you on all of this. It's like you're saying like, Oh, I get really excited to go in and then I'm, I'm talking to people. I'm running into people I know and then I'm getting to exercise and I'm, I'm doing the thing that I love and I really enjoy it and it's, it's very good.

Curtis Dunn: And yet the whole reason why we're even talking about this is because you're like, I'm not doing this anymore. And it's like, what? Like, where is that coming from, then? I 

Kate McLeod: just got so read. 

Curtis Dunn: Sorry. 

Curtis Dunn: No, [00:30:00] no, 

Kate McLeod: no, no, No! No, red, R E A D. Not like, um Oh, turning 

Curtis Dunn: red! 

Kate McLeod: No, R E A D. Reading. Like, Read a book. Yeah. You just read me.

Kate McLeod: I did. to filth. 

Curtis Dunn: No, but like, but I, I just mean I, I think it's so easy for us to make like, these factual statements about ourselves without realizing Like, that maybe what you're kind of getting at there, to say like, I'm not going to quote unquote, cattle calls anymore, is that you're feeling uncomfortable about that feeling going into there.

Curtis Dunn: It has, It has nothing to do with the positive feelings you're feeling, but there's, there's this extra feeling that you're like, I don't want to be that 22 year old girl I was feeling like cattle going in there. And I'm just here to push you and remind you, you're not the 22 year old girl you were. You are the 31 year old girl.

Curtis Dunn: That was me. That you are. You started it. I [00:31:00] know. I know. But you are an evolved person now. And so if this is something that is beneficial to you that you enjoy doing that brings you joy that's taking two and a half hours out of your very regimented life. But if that is all true, then what is it that makes you say out loud on a podcast for the world to hear?

Curtis Dunn: I don't do this, I don't like doing this anymore, you know, what's, what's going on underneath that? Because you're right, 

Kate McLeod: because like, even if I walked into that space and like those, that's the space, that's how the space is defined. No one could ever make me a version of myself that I'm not. 

Curtis Dunn: Well, Exactly.

Kate McLeod: But also, I think it's because, honestly, it's because I am in that part of my career, my journey, my life, where I know the glow up is so close. And so, I am aligning with her. 

Curtis Dunn: Do you? And what does that even mean? I do! 

Kate McLeod: I do know that. I know that like, things, I'm in, because I'm so [00:32:00] uncomfortable all the time, I know that I'm in the, I'm in a growing phase.

Kate McLeod: Which means that there will be achieved expansion growth. Things are gonna look different soon. And, I think it's because I'm so Ready, I think, or not even like ready, like ready like, you know, movement. Ready. Um, it's like, It's like I'm So uncomfortable, but I'm so calm, where I'm like, I can see so many beautiful, wonderful changes Like, different looks.

Kate McLeod: It all like, it looks different. 

Curtis Dunn: So why are you not glowed up now? 

Kate McLeod: I am glowed up now. 

Curtis Dunn: Exactly. But you're saying like, I know the glowed, the glow, the glow, the glown up version? The glow, the glown up version, though? No, I know, but the, the future tense. Oh as, as if the unrealized glow. I'm trying to get into the future tense there.

Curtis Dunn: Okay, I see what you're saying. Uh, like, The glown up version of me. Grown up. You can have that one for free. Thank you. Glown up, grown up. Um, No, but. Okay. You're, You're saying that that version of you, you [00:33:00]know, is is in front of you and and it within reach and it's so close and yet i'm sitting across from you and this is the most glowed up i've ever seen you so why not just now like why do we have to be conceptually like thinking about the future of ourselves when right now is

Kate McLeod: I'm gonna repeat this back to you. I 

Curtis Dunn: know. 

Kate McLeod: I know. This is again, I'm saying things that I'm like, is this even true? I don't even know. No, but this is right though, but this is, I think this is why this, this works because I feel like everyone in their, I hope everyone in their life has, A mirror like this has a, a relationship like this where they're just like mm, mm, but I'm gonna remind you of it.

Kate McLeod: Right. But cause these are both things that we both need to implement, but in our own ways, it just, it's just happens in different ways. I don't know. I mean, I'm not gonna say I don't know cause I'm the one who does know cause no one else can know. But like the, the, the glow up, I [00:34:00] guess what I mean by the glow up is the novel of my life.

Kate McLeod: I feel this chapter concluding and I feel another one starting. For a multitude of reasons. Like, So much is gonna change in the next year and a half. 

Curtis Dunn: Factually true. Factually 

Kate McLeod: true. But, there is, you know how like, you, I talk about past versions of myself. I feel very connected to a version of myself I haven't met yet.

Kate McLeod: And I know that like, I see a new schedule, I see a new identity, you know, with ME³ , with this podcast, with my production company. I'm an actor at my core. I'm a writer. Like, all these things. It just feels like the responsibilities are getting bigger and I want my day to day practice and the days that I define myself and the things that my actions that I allow to define myself represent me, I want to make sure that they are actually in line with other things.

Kate McLeod: Like [00:35:00] coffee, for example. There are certain kinds of coffee that I definitely drink back in the day. You cannot get me to drink now. 

Curtis Dunn: Sure. 

Kate McLeod: Yeah. You know the roasteries that are acceptable. You know what I mean? Like you

Curtis Dunn: you 

Kate McLeod: There are only certain cups of coffee that I'm going to have like, yes I crave caffeine, but there are only certain kinds if I'm gonna have caffeine.

Kate McLeod: It's gonna be a worthy Caffeinated beverage that has to come my way for me to consume it It's I'm not going to just have pool water because I need a little bit of energy. It's like no I'd rather not Until I find the thing that actually works. There's some of that happening right now, in my life. And in my career.

Curtis Dunn: Yeah, and I guess what I'm pushing back on though, is just to say, you know, who says? Like, Who says that's the, the right thing? Me. Yeah, but even you saying, you know, The, the novel of your life, which I think we use that metaphor a lot, you and I, [00:36:00] right? We're, We're talking about chapters opening, chapters closing, and all of that.

Curtis Dunn: But then, who's to say that's the right metaphor? You know, Who's to say that we're kind of on this trajectory of like, life has chapters and there's a beginning, a middle, and an end, and you're saying there's this future self that you know is there, and you can sense is there, and you can't wait to meet her, and all of that.

Curtis Dunn: I think that's, that's great. But what if, what if that Future self, it's just you right now. 

Kate McLeod: It is me. 

Curtis Dunn: But uh, like, it's that thing of I want to be more present, right? I think that's what I'm getting at, is that by thinking about the future version of yourself, you're neglecting the present version of yourself.

Kate McLeod: Mm.

Curtis Dunn: Not you, I'm saying, I'm saying the royal you again, so like that clarity. Oh yeah, 

Kate McLeod: that's what we mean. 

Curtis Dunn: But, But um, like, the, the royal you, the royal I. I, I just keep on thinking like, this is who I want to be. This is [00:37:00] what I want to achieve. This is what I want to do. And it's like, that is all future thinking.

Curtis Dunn: When what I need is to think about the, the, who I am right now. And just be the who I am right now. 

Kate McLeod: Hmm. The who I am right now. The who I am 

Kate McLeod: right now. 

Curtis Dunn: I don't even know if that's right. Is that 

Kate McLeod: even right? Each shoots and leaves. Help me. The who I am. The who 

Curtis Dunn: I am right now. No, it's for sure nothing right there, but 

Kate McLeod: you get what I mean.

Kate McLeod: Uh huh, uh Huh. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Languages. 

Curtis Dunn: I know. It's malleable. Malleable. 

Kate McLeod: Very malleable. I mean, Have you seen my writing? You edit my stuff. You know how malleable I think language is. You 

Curtis Dunn: do sometimes like, come out with some crazy turns of phrase, and I'm like, 

Kate McLeod: aw. Well, Because it makes sense when I'm speaking, but it doesn't necessarily make sense when I'm writing.

Kate McLeod: For sure. For sure. Which, recently, I've actually learned a lot. Um, I was editing an interview that I did last night. Um, They sent it to me, they're like, do you want to revise this? And I was like, yeah, absolutely. But it's so funny because I was like, wow, the way I speak does not translate on paper.

Kate McLeod: Like, I need to remember, [00:38:00] if things are going to be printed, they need to, I need to have that in mind. Because I think those are different versions of speaking. 

Curtis Dunn: Absolutely. We all have different strengths, you know, we, we uh, Talk, you can, though. Yes, I can. That's, That's for sure. Mm hmm. I mean, A strength.

Kate McLeod: Well, I love, I love talking. 

Curtis Dunn: Same. 

Kate McLeod: Yeah. 

Curtis Dunn: I think that's kind of, that's part of this whole thing, is that you and I, Nobody in our lives can ever shut us up. Mm hmm. And now we've found somebody else who kind of is just like, Okay, we don't need to shut up. Yeah, we don't, at all. 

Kate McLeod: No, no, No, we get to have super fun.

Kate McLeod: And then 

Curtis Dunn: three hours later, we're still on the phone and it's like, God, this is what happens when we don't talk for a week. 

Kate McLeod: Exactly, which is why, yeah, when you keep it consistent, then you actually have time to, you know, disperse it out over. 

Curtis Dunn: What? 

Kate McLeod: No, I just I'm, I'm curious about how, with you having so much change coming up.

Kate McLeod: Talk about what's coming up and talk about how you're going to [00:39:00] keep yourself accountable to staying active in your thinking and present in doing that. 

Curtis Dunn: Well, I, I've had to say, I've had to stay present. Actually, this entire year has been an exercise in what I'm trying to preach here, right?

Curtis Dunn: So It feels so weird to recap to you things that I've already, you know, told you. But for the context for the listener um, I, I applied to a bunch of grad schools. a bad year to be applying to grad school. We just learned. Um, Yeah, Columbia, just like all of their funding got rescinded or like whatever.

Curtis Dunn: But it didn't go, let's say, the way I had planned. Yes. Um, And so I really quickly had to realize that. And what I, what I realized was, My, my future thinking was I was counting on getting into these grad schools. You saw it. I saw it. And I even, I texted you at one point [00:40:00] and I was like, visualization is bullshit and I hate this.

Curtis Dunn: And I actually stand by that. No offense. No, it's okay. No, you do. Again, like we just, we have different thoughts on things, but that is future thinking. Like the idea of visualization, it is like future thinking. And this is, I know we disagree on these things, but you know, this is why production. Your 

Kate McLeod: version expands my own.

Kate McLeod: And also challenges my own because either I agree with you and I change my mind or I don't and I learn more about why I believe what I believe. 

Curtis Dunn: Exactly. So I don't mind either way. So, But for, so I had just like really convinced myself like that is what this year is going to look like. I am going to get accepted to every single school I applied to and I'm going to be moving wherever I'm gonna move uh, you know, perhaps to a small Ivy League school in Rhode Island.

Curtis Dunn: But. I, that's not my reality and I had to quickly realize that I was solely thinking about the future rather than like [00:41:00] being in the present right now. I was so worried about getting in or not getting in rather than just like spending each day to day. And so then what ended up happening was I uh, a company that I've worked for before, an organization I've worked for before, got in contact and they want me going back to England.

Curtis Dunn: And like, working in England again. And um, I, I'm like, okay waiting, waiting until I have a visa and my passport, you know, but it's happening. But even that idea that I'm, I'm going back to England. Well, I just, I have to stay in the present throughout all of this, because if I start thinking about, okay well, what does that look like when I'm coming back to the States in July or August or whatever, I start getting like, worried.

Curtis Dunn: I start, I start flipping through my head trying to be like, Okay well, what am I going to do? What's What's next? And it's like, that's [00:42:00] actually a long time away. 

Kate McLeod: And you actually don't have enough information yet to really actually know what you're going to do. 

Curtis Dunn: No information, actually, at all, pretty much right.

Curtis Dunn: So and there's nothing I can do right now to get that information. So I have to just be Totally at peace with the fact, I don't know what August looks like. Don't know what September looks like. Don't know what 2026 looks like. 

Kate McLeod: Can that be exciting? 

Curtis Dunn: That is the most exciting. If you don't know, that's the most exciting.

Curtis Dunn: And I think my constant attempt to know is what causes me the most heartache. Right? That constant attempt to be like, this is what, this is what August is going to look like. And then when August doesn't look like that, Ooh, that's tough. 

Kate McLeod: Wait, but also, if someone handed us our scheduled life for the next two years, I think you and I would get really sad.

Curtis Dunn: That's an interesting thought experiment, isn't it? [00:43:00] I, yeah, I don't think I want to know. I don't think I want to know. And then again? 

Kate McLeod: Wouldn't be nice . 

Curtis Dunn: You know, I have no idea actually. What a good first date question. What a good, you know, I'm always collecting first date question. I 

Kate McLeod: know. , 

Curtis Dunn: if you could get a um, a, a sheet that tells you exactly how the next two years are, would you take it?

Kate McLeod: Would you take it? Could, would you want to know?

Curtis Dunn: Yes. I think I would. Okay. I think, I think I would be I, I wouldn't be able to resist the offer. Yeah. I, I would be far too curious. . Mm-hmm . I, I couldn't say no. I don't have that kind of willpower. So, For me, I would definitely say yes, but then, no, I don't even think I would regret it. I don't know. Who knows?

Curtis Dunn: This is methis is me not knowing. Well, This is you today, you know what I mean? 

Kate McLeod: And also, you don't have to commit to anything. Yeah, that's true. And like, hopefully, you don't have the same opinions later, you know what I mean? But, um, and also, two years isn't that long of a time, so, whatever, try it for two years.

Kate McLeod: If it doesn't, then don't do it the next [00:44:00] Increment of two years. Okay. Pocket this one. Okay. Great little movie. Thank you. Go on 

Kate McLeod: noted Let's 

Curtis Dunn: write it 

Kate McLeod: done. 

Curtis Dunn: And this is the thing we got to start writing right now Like and this is what we were talking about before is like We have these ideas and we have like concepts and things like that.

Curtis Dunn: Yeah, and then it's like, okay, well 

Kate McLeod: When? And the thing is, is take action from that moment because that's where the inspiration is its most, uh, unfettered. Like, it's, it's, it's most truest form. 

Curtis Dunn: Absolutely. I have, um, I have four. Uh, running notes on the notes app on my phone that are just writing ideas. Mm hmm.

Curtis Dunn: And it's like, when am I going to get to the writing? Yeah. Yeah. You know? Um, and I, I think, uh, that's the key is like, let's, let's hop on the subway from here and let's be writing that movie about a little gremlin that's offering you, uh, A look at [00:45:00] the next two years of your life. Are you taking it? 

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Curtis Dunn: It's very, It's very in line with uh, your, your work. It is very in line with my work and 

Kate McLeod: my writing. I mean, I'm looking for another thing to produce, 

Kate McLeod: so. 

Curtis Dunn: Well.

Kate McLeod: could do. Stay tuned. I have two projects, need one more. Three's the limit, but. 

Curtis Dunn: ME³ . 

Kate McLeod: ME³ . Mm. Uh, Okay so, Moving forward, how are you going to stay present?

Curtis Dunn: I am constantly checking myself, even right now. I think obviously you have to plan for things. Obviously, you know, you have to be like Right, I, I need to do this on Friday. Right, like, I'm still keeping a calendar. You know, All of that. But, But day to day, when I, when I catch myself thinking about the future, or the past, I just am trying to reconnect with the present.

Curtis Dunn: Okay. Whether that's observations of around me. So like if right now. Yeah, what does the 

Kate McLeod: practice look like? Yeah, 

Curtis Dunn: if, If nothing's around and [00:46:00] right now I start like really thinking about like, Oh God, what's next? Oh, I never know what's next. What's next? And then I catch myself doing that and just like, I'm sitting at a table.

Curtis Dunn: Uh Huh. And there's, you know, this here, and there's a microphone in front of me. Maybe I do a little breathing exercise, whatever it is just, just again, coming back to the present moment. Or reminding myself, if it's, if it's quite zoomed out, you know, that idea of like, what's next, what does next year look like, and what's that, what's that, being like, oh, right now?

Kate McLeod: Yeah. 

Curtis Dunn: I just moved to New York. I just like, just reminding myself of what right now is and not getting ahead or else I'm going to miss the right now. 

Kate McLeod: Exactly, because it's like, is this thought to me right now helpful or hurtful? Because even if you spend the rest of the day being like, What does it look like in August?

Kate McLeod: You're not gonna find out. 

Curtis Dunn: Well, And you say, is this thought helpful or hurtful? Mm [00:47:00] hmm. And you know I keep going back to this, even though I have no idea where it comes from, or what Buddhist philosopher said this, but thought, present thought cannot hurt you. Mm hmm. The only type of thinking that can hurt you is thinking about the past or thinking about the future.

Kate McLeod: Yeah. 

Curtis Dunn: And I just, somebody said that to me in the past like, year or so, whatever. And I have just, I have not been able to disprove that. That is just, to me, seems to be so true. 

Kate McLeod: It is so true because I don't, and I don't know why, it is so addictive to try to do the opposite, which is to be in the past or the future.

Kate McLeod: We were driving up for, Dear friend's Wedding in California recently, he and I have been friends since middle school and there was gonna be a lot of people that I knew from childhood, from high school at the wedding, and I was sharing that. I was like very nervous about it, but I had to stop myself where I thought, first of all, I have no idea what these people think of the version of me [00:48:00] that they knew in high school or middle school, whatever.

Kate McLeod: We saw each other the last, I have no idea, I have no control over that. I can't change that right now. I can't answer that for you right now. Me continuing to think about this is so. not helpful. Whether they thought I was an asshole or thought I was like annoying. I mean, I think everyone at that age is.

Kate McLeod: But also, I can't help if they're a human who goes off of old information or is excited for new information. And I was going in, I get it in my head about this. have no control over any of this. I have no control over this. Yeah, what 

Curtis Dunn: do you care? And 

Kate McLeod: also, what do I care?

Kate McLeod: Genuinely. Because if I check in with myself, I'm like, I actually don't care. Then I get there. Everyone's lovely. I had an incredible time. And I Most 

Curtis Dunn: people are, and most people aren't ever thinking about you. 

Kate McLeod: Ever. 

Curtis Dunn: Ever. The royal you. The 

Kate McLeod: royal you. A 

Curtis Dunn: lot of people are thinking about Kate McLeod. 

Kate McLeod: Thank you so much for making the distinction.

Kate McLeod: But like, then I get there, and because I've disregarded those feelings and those sentiments, I'm not walking in with those feelings and preconceived notions, looking for that evidence that I am bound to [00:49:00] find, if that's what I think. So instead I just go, and it's like, I have an incredible partner who like makes me feel like magic all the time.

Kate McLeod: I'm just gonna Shout out. Shout out. Um, But I um, you know, just get there and I was just like happy, joyful, and like met these people and was like, oh my god. And they were just as excited to literally meet me now as I was to meet them. 

Curtis Dunn: And what a waste of time ever worrying about it to begin with. Ever.

Curtis Dunn: Working through those thoughts about the past and the hurts of the past and all of the thinking about the future and how are they going to think of you and all of that. You wasted so much time, so much, so much emotional energy when if you had just stayed present, being like, look at how beautiful the trees are in Yeah.

Curtis Dunn: Southern California at the time, like driving to this wedding, I don't know where, wherever it was. No, No, we were, yeah. But uh, you know, you driving to this wedding and you're staying in the moment, then you get there and you're in the moment and you're still having that exact same beautiful time. Mm-hmm But you haven't wasted all of that time beforehand. Yes. [00:50:00] Getting yourself worked up, getting yourself anxious, and I look. I am trying to practice this. This is not, This is not, I would ask a wise person like, this is the entire idea of so many philosophers, you know, and I've been, I've been trying to cite, you know, sources on this.

Curtis Dunn: Um, I'm just trying to be more present. And that, it like, just at all times, that is going to be for this year, that's what I'm going to do. 

Kate McLeod: But that sentence means attempting to practice, attempting to make habit of. If I'm just trying, that's all you need to do. You don't need to be, because does this work all the time?

Kate McLeod: No. Sometimes I have days where I do not wake up excited. at all. 

Curtis Dunn: But that's So weird. I know. Because you sometimes cannot sleep. That's how excited you are for the next day. But, 

Kate McLeod: Heartbeats go up and down. Do you know what I mean? Yes. It's like we have to experience one to know the other. You, opposites attract because one side of opposition and the other side both inform the other [00:51:00] about the other.

Kate McLeod: One thing in relationship to what you don't know about other things. Everything is comparative and like that's how you actually accumulate. more knowledge is by looking at the other side. 

Curtis Dunn: Sure. Absolutely. 

Kate McLeod: Mm hmm. And that is what we're doing here today, looking at the other side. 

Kate McLeod: Looking at the other side.

Curtis Dunn: For sure. 

Kate McLeod: Yeah, but I think, I think that's why it's so helpful to have like, Because I could tell you like, years ago, I wouldn't have hadI wouldn't have admitted that I ever was anxious about, potentially. But it's like, as soon as you say it, it's almost scary. The first step is 

Curtis Dunn: identifying it. 

Kate McLeod: Yes. And then also saying it, too.

Kate McLeod: And I justI mean, you know better than most people. I was stuck in those patterns of thinking for so, so long, where it was just like Well, what about this? What about that? It's like, it is so long ago. Why do we care? I couldI can't tell you now why I cared so much. Well, I could, actually. Because I was trying to have control.

Curtis Dunn: Yes. 

Kate McLeod: And all I have control over is now. 

Curtis Dunn: Mm hmm. Mm 

Kate McLeod: hmm.

Curtis Dunn: Absolutely. 

Kate McLeod: Yeah, and also trying to have control in areas that you're just, it's impossible to have control [00:52:00]anyway. 

Curtis Dunn: Control is entirely a construct. A made up construct. We never have control over anything. We're, in this universe like, whipsawing around.

Curtis Dunn: You know about this comet that's coming? 

Kate McLeod: Go. There's like a 

Curtis Dunn: meteor coming. It's got a, it's got a 5 percent chance of hitting Earth or whatever. That's what wiped out the dinosaurs. You know what like, the point is, is we don't have control over anything. Is, I guess, what I'm trying to get at. You know, We have no control.

Curtis Dunn: So if we think we're controlling something like that is just, that's 

Kate McLeod: just Do you think control is an illusion? 

Curtis Dunn: Yeah, that's what I'm saying uh, you know, and also like, again, do I actually believe that? I don't know, but, you know, if a meteor could come wipe out the dinosaurs, it could wipe us out, so what kind of control do I actually have in the grand scheme of things?

Curtis Dunn: I 

Kate McLeod: used to have this thought a lot where it's just like, if I don't get to achieve what I want to, how sad. Where it's just like, then I thought like, well, I mean, you know. sad 

Curtis Dunn: to who? 

Kate McLeod: Yeah, but sad to who? Cause like, I'm 

Curtis Dunn: dead, so. I know, 

Kate McLeod: so. [00:53:00] Wow. 

Curtis Dunn: Absolutely. Um, Yeah, no, I did see that big clock over there, and it is, we are at time.

Kate McLeod: Honestly, how we can fly like this is like such a gift in, in humanhood, of my humanhood, is that, that can happen. 

Curtis Dunn: I cannot believe it's been two hours. I know, I 

Kate McLeod: know. Wait, but that's how we magically realize it's four in the morning. Well, That's the 

Curtis Dunn: constant thing when we're talking on the phone. All of a sudden it's like, Oh my god, Kate, we've been on the phone for over an hour.

Curtis Dunn: I gotta go, I gotta go right now. 

Kate McLeod: Yeah. 

Kate McLeod: Is there anything that you want to plug?

Kate McLeod: Do you want people to follow along with you in any capacity? 

Curtis Dunn: No, because I'm taking a break from social media and just trying to live in the present, trying to live in the now. Okay. Come meet me in New York. Come do, yeah, come chat. 

Kate McLeod: Okay, I love it. Thanks for coming on 

Curtis Dunn: love you very much. 

Kate McLeod: I love you so so much.

Kate McLeod: Oh My god that flue 

Curtis Dunn: Apologies, we're really bad at you know sticking to time. 

Kate McLeod: Yeah 

And that's the latest I'm honored to have been part [00:54:00] of your thinking sphere today. Feel free to share, like, and subscribe on this platform or follow and participate on any of my social media platforms. If this practice intrigues you as much as it does me, then join us in the ME three community where we will work directly and you'll curate a mindful method of thinking to define your own creative conscious.

Thanks for listening to the latest episode of Authenticated. I love that you're here.